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Spoke to a couple of the Drillers team tonight and it seems their season has reached a premature end as one of the CDPL's most successful team over the years folds after just 5 matches :(

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If that is true it is a real shame but not toally surprising

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If this is true... Farley Loyalists are going to be a very strong team...

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Are a couple of their players looking for a new team?

No i'm not being a vulture, but when opportunity knocks........

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there does seem to be a general malaise in the first div at the moment, Truey and Scott said this will be the Edens last year which I think is a real shame if thats true, the SAS are turning up with 4 players and now Danny informs us the Drillers are splitting up,did they have a bust up?because on paper they are a talented team

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I don't want to gatecrash the Drillers thred, but maybe its the time or maybe its a bit premature to announce but in the Eden's present set up this 100% be our last season all together.

Number of reasons but in the main we have lost some key and influential players this season (Liam Connors, Tony Venus, Donna Evans), which leaves us with just 7 full time players. No competition for places and if one drops out (which will happen in the course of a season) we are in trouble.

Scott is certain he will not play next season, he has said for the last 4 years he would not play and we managed to keep getting one more season out of him. I told the boys before the start of the season that I cannot keep on making the trip from Southend each week as with my work and 2 kids it is really becoming hard work week in week out to make the 120 mile round journey which I've loyally done now for the past 8 years. Truey always said we would know when it was right to turn off the Eden's lights (cue a violin player) and I am guessing it will feel right to do that at the end of the current Winter season. We now need to go out on a high note, make sure we stay up and give it one last massive push to win one of the two cups.

Whether Arthur, and a few of the other boys will try and keep the Eden name going remains to be seen - they need players so maybe a merge with some of the Drillers is the way forward for both these teams? After all, both sides have earned their places in Croydon history. Farley Eden Drillers.............

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would be a big shame mate but I like the sound of the Driller Edens

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I think unfortunately the nature of these teams and the fact in most cases it is played by adults means people move on, we play every year as if it will be out last cos we have come too close to folding too many times to take anything for granted. I think everything has its shelf life and I cant blame either the drillers or the eden for making their decisions as no one can say that they have not tried their best to keep the teams going through tough times.

This will be a big blow for the league losing two division one legends in one fould swoop the only think that concerns me is that both announcements are made after dissapointing losses which is never the best time to announce something

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I saw John Hoy, Mick Samuel and ROb NcDonnell on the Monday for snooker, and we spoke about pool, and they said nothing whatsoever about having any issues. Either something has happened on the Tuesday or perhaps they forgot!

Power is correct, teams like Eden and Drillers are like Marmite. You either love or hate them, but they have been part of the make up of the first Division for years and both won stuff, The Drillers having won oodles of trophies. The league will be a poorer place if both teams go into the distance.

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It is sad to hear of the demise of two great teams. Could the Drillers not amalgamate with Suzie's Floozies to form say Drillies Frillies !!

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It's the likes of John Hoy and Steve Raines I feel sorry for . .

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I had no intention of announcing anything just yet, but Mr Nuttman's post sparked me into action and nothing to do with our start to the season or on the back of a few losses.

On paper the Eden has probably had the toughest opening 4 league fixtures out of any of the mid table sides. The Bloodhounds we were expected to beat and did. Then it was the Hot Shots and last night against the Ego's. In both matches we competed well and really should have come away with more than the two 5-2 defeats.

We'll stay up, I am sure of that, too much spirit in the squad. We have struggled these last few seasons, survived by the skins of our teeth on the last 2 occasions. Important we go out on top.

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Shotgun Arthur Hewson and Mick Samuels.

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I can only reiterate the comments thus far, It really would be a great loss to the league if either or both of these teams folded, and I think the Marmite analogy sums them up perfectly.
Love them or hate them, you can have nothing but admiration for the pure passion of the Eden.
As for the Drillers, they are an institution, and have produced some of the best known legends that this league has ever known.

These will be the two highest profile names mentioned, but are not the only teams struggling for numbers. Across the whole league teams are struggling for a regular 7.
The Pawleyne, close to my heart, are a perfect example, and I'm sure there are many more.

Perhaps then, this is a conviniant time to discuss (again) the possibility of restructuring the way we play our matches.

The best idea I've heard is make it 10 frames (2 sets of 5)
With a minimum of 5 players to a team.

It allows teams struggling for 7 players to carry on.
It allows existing teams with larger squads to still carry on playing 7 or 8 players per week.
The prospect of playing 2 frames a week, as opposed to a single frame, will attract players from further afield (Surrey for instance) who would originally be put off by the 1 frame format.

Discuss.

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Totally agree with you on that score. I've twice said I'll put a proposal in along those lines and on both occasions I was told someone else was doing it when that wasn't the case.

I don't care if there are 10 identical proposals made next time - I will be doing one of them!

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Sad day.

As much as I barrack them for constantly failing to get a reliable 7, I love the Drillers.

Got 20 or more trophies dowstairs with Drillers engraved on the front (OK most are League Cup Group winners *spit*, but it sounds good huh) ;)

For what it's worth, since moving over Chertsey way, I now only play in 1 team, on a Thursday, 16 frames, 5 players, all of us get 3 frames, best player on night gets a 4th.

Starts at 8, never finishes past 11.

Whole different ball game to Croydon.

I couldn't dream of going back to 1 frame on a Tuesday, to the extent that I'd struggle to motivate myself for it even if i still lived over there.

You desperately need a format change.

7 x 1 is for old fudging rules.

As said, we manage 16 frames, and whilst league rules allow for stopwatch, we rarely if ever use them, as we all try to play within the minute, out of courtesy to our opponents.

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shaggy
its ur fault
not touching indeed.....john hoys on suicide watch
:lol:

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The idea of merging the drillers with the unpredictables has been around a long time but losing either one of these teams from the league seemed too much for either team's ego. If they really are breaking up then whoever still wants to play are welcome at the unpreds. Of course, we only want the reliable ones... :chicken:

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i love my picture :lol:

which evans is going to die ?

:threaten:

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Neither . . Unless Sass is a distant relative or has married me without telling me . .

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Why should the entire format be change because a small number of teams can't get 7 players out on a regular basis? You'll change it so that you only need 5 players and will get only Steve Raines and John Hoy turning up :lol:

The Flying Machine get 10 players at every match and more often than not they have a 10-day camel ride to away matches yet you don't see them folding . .

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The format should be changed because the league is about playing pool and matches are regularly finishing in under an hour.

If I'd trekked from the desert to play a pool match I'd expect it to last the evening! :lol:

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Surely we all joined a pool league to play pool, so it makes perfect sense that any format change which gives us more games of pool to play can only be a good thing.

There aren't that many teams that I know of who have many more than 7 turning up regularly, so the 2 sets with subs idea sounds ideal, even for the bigger squads.

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i think we have 2 more players wanting to sign up so we could even set up a B team

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If teams are struggling to get players why not put a players wanted section on this site. That way anyone who wants to change teams can see who is looking for players.

It would also give people who are interested in joining the league an entry route and stop it from being a closed loop like it is at the moment- most people who join know someone who is on a team already.

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Great. Another trip to Mars . . .

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sorry matey

i shouldve realised it was sass in her old school leotard
:bounce:
and
ur a grass
:lol:

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This is interesting. I know it wasn't me so who's telling porkies?!!

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I personally like the 7 player, 7 frame format, and what I'd like to see ideally, is the current format simply doubled, with an 8pm start time applied, and, if required, the time rule applied to matches that are over running.
Substitutions at the half way point optional, up to 3 subs
1 point every frame won, win bonus of 2 points, drawn match 1 point.

This doesn't solve the situation with reagards to teams being short of players, BUT, it makes it more attractive for potential signings, becasue there is more pool to play, and it's a longer format.

Most matches now rarely take more than 90 minutes, so 3 hours (8pm to 11pm) should be grand.

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I have been roped into playing for a few teams in the Godalming League and played my first match last night. They play 14 frames and the match last night was quite slow but still started at 8 and finished at 11.

Its rules are in between both set of rules here.You can reallistically have any number of players between 5 and 14 and still fulfill a fixture, because amaximum of three frames can be played by an individual. They pick as you go along, so you can in reality have one man playing the first three frames etc etc, and a platyer playing the last three so itts flexible for those that need to shoot off and those that need to turn up late.

It is a more experienced league in terms of World Rules though as it adopted them universally throughout the leagues right from the start, so the implications on the lower divisons are less.

I would personally suggest that Sass's proposal is the best short term, and that 10 frames should be played with anywhere between 5 and 10 players being able to play to fulfill a fixture to its max. 1 bonus point for a draw, 2 bonus points a win. This should be with a view to increasing over time.

There really is no excuse not to have 5 players so at least the now ridiculous play again rule (which had a valid reason when it started but is now farcical) can be scrapped. If you only have four, tough, you lose two frames!

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8pm start time is hopeless for me. I struggle to make 8.30 most weeks :roll:

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You could still play 5th if you turn up at 8:30. . . .

And even then, the match could still continue, with late players playing catch up when they arrived.
The beauty of a longer format, is you have more flexibility.

In the Surrey interleague, it quite often happens that a player will play three frames on the spin due to having to leave early, or arriving late.
No real issue there.

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If you played 10 rather than 14 you could still start at 8.30 in my opinion. 14 however needs to start at 8.

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Guess not. Except that someone else would have to take over being captain. Matches would generally finish after 11.

14 frames in a night would be the end of my involvement in Croydon league.

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Your avatar has been deleted . .

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What people seem to forget when throwing these ideas about is that when you change the format it has implications on other aspects of the league such as how the rankings work, how many frames the cup competitions are played over . .

This will be the third time it's been discussed and yet still a concrete proposal isn't apparent . . We'll end up with some shoddy format in place which turns out to be as wank as the 'plate' competition . .

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So you'd leave it as it is then?

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5 players is an interesting concept and I can see some benefits. I like the current format though so would want to trial this in the league cup or something first to see if it can work or not.

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Why would it impact the rankings? The first frame that any player plays in the evening in the first 7 will count for the rankings. No different from how it is now. I agree with you that the plate comp is a waste of space.

There is nothing wrong with leaving it how it is but I think CDPL should be concerned about the number of teams dropping out. A format that allows for current teams to continue as they are but requires a minimum of 5 players makes it easier for new teams to enter and I think that should be encouraged.

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Cup games best of 9.

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There is always the option of trying an extended format on the first division from next winter, get feedback, and then take it from there?
With cups staying as they are.

Within the first division, all frames count towards the divisional singles, so if you played twice and won twice, then 2 wins.

For rankings purposes, which includes all divisions, only the first frame counts.

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Why should only the first frame count for ranking purposes?

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Because some teams will play 10 players, and others play 5 for example. If every frame counts then some people would have played more than others. Nonetheless thats only because Croydon do their rankings on frames won rather than frame difference.

I honestly dont think this factor of individual or overall rankings is an obstacle that cannot be overcome.

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Agree. . .
The finer points can be sorted later on, and they won't be difficult.

The main thing is to address what, if anything can be done to
a) Keep the current members of the league happy enough that they want to continue,
and
b) If we can attract new players into our league.

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:mad:I seem to remember before the rules were changed to speed thing up? there was lots of moaning from some people about not getting back to their pub/club till after 10.30 and how the new rules would be much better. now it seem they would like to play more frames start at 8pm till 11.00pm be able to play subs in cup matches
if some players don't play to good what next. The 7 frame format has been played in this league from day one a lot of rules have changed over the 29 years I've been playing in this league but it's always been
you pick 7 players to play 7 single frames this league format has stood the test of time it's not how fast you play. it's how well you play .if people want to play lots of frames they should enter opens were they can play the best of 7or 9 frames per round that's what world rules were designed for.

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Having read the thread, I can see the arguments on both sides. We've always played 7, and no-one argues, so why change it? However, there is the fact that the league is shrinking rapidly, and a lot of teams (mine included) don't have enough depth to cope with 2-3 absentees. In terms of match length, all our matches finish considerably after 10pm, and I don't think adding another 3 frames to the match length could be easily incorporated.

Here's another take - a lot of changes have been brought in as a trial for the summer season, and then been accepted. Why not have a 10 frame format (5players twice, as previously suggested) as a trial next summer season, and review it from there? The AGM is held in September, when the summer season is in it's closing stages, and that can be used to determine whether the trial becomes a permanent fixture for the winter.

A quick word to the wise - if we do it in the summer it has to be ratified in the half year GM in February(?), so get the proposals in before you forget, otherwise nothing will change....

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Its nothing to do with the rules or time, its because some teams havent got enough players and the team numbers are dwindling. BY making it 10 frames would mean the teams for struggling could have 5 players playing twice and the teams with 10 can carry on like they did before.

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Exactly. This isn't another reason to dredge up the old argument about World Rules killing off teams. A mate of mine plays in a darts league and many teams in their league are suffering the same fate as some of our league's pool teams. The fact is, pubs are becoming increasingly geared towards drink and food, and less interested in 'pub sports', especially the big chains. The fact is, if "The Local Pub" shuts down and gets taken over by a big chain, the first thing they do is take out the pool table and the dart board to put more seats in. The smoking ban has probably had an impact on this too, as many casual pool and darts players psychologically 'need' a ciggy while they're actually playing. Obviously they can't now.

Personally, I think the idea of more frames per match night will only help to attract new players. Doesn't sound much of a carrot to dangle when you see a potential new player and explain that if they join your league they'll have to travel however many miles it is from their house to your pub/club plus every other week generally much further to an away game to play just one game of pool. The prospect of getting more games in surely would sound better to them (and us).

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On the dwindling numbers front, the darts league I play in have two league of 10, when they used to have three leagues of 12. One snooker league has 12 teams when it had 16, another snooker league has 7 teams when it used to have 30+.

The number of teams is dwindling throughout the country irrespective of rulesets. Smoking ban, pub closures, cost and time are all as much of a factor as anything else.

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This thread begun because we have the very real threat of two long term Croydon Teams folding becasue of dwindling numbers.

What we are discussing, is what, if anything can be done to save the teams concerned.

Lowering the minimum player required level certainly enables both these sides to continue, and would relieve the burden on many others.

It's also worth pointing out that the Croydon Winter league used to span 6 divisions with ease, and I'm sure there was a 7th once....
There is now only 5.
It's happening already, no point in ignoring the facts.

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back to original thread have the Drillers officially disbanded

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Nothing to do with rules that teams are leaving.

Pubs closing left, right and centre, a real lack of young players coming through, the majority of the players in the league aged 30 plus, many with different priorities and interests.

For those reasons Pool leagues in general will shrink anyway, and end up with only the hard core of players remaining, probably playing out of bigger multi-team venues like Rileys, as opposed to local pubs.

You have to adapt the league, or more and more teams will fold.

Frankly, you have nothing to lose by trying a new format, because the shit is already hitting the fan.

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we could do with a few oy the drillers coming to us if they want as terry is having a little break at hte moment and graf has a few work commitments so the door is open at the unpredictables:winkgrin:

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Im sure I asked the same thing on page 1

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If The Drillers are folding then can anybody from the team contact me to confirm as such ...... its all very well advertising the fact on here but don't you think that an official confirmation to myself is not to much to ask.

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According to John Hoy yesterday it's definately happening :(

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And to let me know would be nice as i have wasted money paying there league fee's.

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I'm going to get a right bollocking if this turns out to be just a massive rumour . . I blame John Hoy and Steve Rains :lol:

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Their.

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Once they have informed Mark Halsey, then Hannah, then I think their next port of call should be me :handshake:

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What happens if a team disbands mid season, can their players move elsewhere in the same season?

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See, now I didn't think they could, as then it's just easy for people to disband a team with no penalty . . . I'm sure Deutch will confirm.

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And we are due to play the Drillers on Tuesday so some advance warning would be appreciated because if I don't fancy travelling 120 miles for a no show to happen.

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I am pretty sure that when Graeme Witt ran a team in last years summer season which folded, he was not allowed to join another team, I presume this is the same situation now

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There are ways around everything.

For example, if the team is going to fold and some players want to continue to play (Rainsey for example). They simply de-register beforehand, then give me (ahem) give another team a ring.....Sorted!

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Their is no rule that covers the eligibility of players playing for other teams if their original team folds .... Personally, I think that if a team folds then all registered players from that team should not be eligible to play for other teams within tjat season ... sorry Harry, but as I said it is a personal opinion.

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I don't think you would need Columbo on the case to realize what you were doing though Harry lol

Personally however I wouldn't have a problem with the commited element of the drillers finding another team in the same season. It's only a pub league after all and seems a little harsh to punish people twice for unreliable team mates.

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Hold the front page a minute .... Item 8 of the Constitution states that a player cannot transfer to another team if his/her original team has been suspended ...... What is the difference between a suspended team and a withdrawn team other than the obvious ???

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That is also a fair comment

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I'd feel sorry for the committed players in the Drillers team but it would start a worrying precedent of they were allowed to join members of another team after dropping out. It is too easy a way out and doesn't encourage teams to make sure they are going to be in it for the long haul. I'm sure Berty would agree, that at the start of every season we look at how many players we have and how many of those we can count on week in week out. The Drillers know which of their players are unreliable and none of us are surprised that these rumours are happening again and seem to have happened every year. I agree with Deutsch that a team dropping out is the same as a team being suspended...

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The point I am trying to make is, some of the Drillers want to play pool. It isn't their fault that some of the other players have let them down.

We only have 7 players this season, last week only 6 turned up because 1 was working.

I tried my hardest to get extra players for this season, I even begged on the other site.

It wasn't my fault a couple of my players from last season were taken from me :cry:

I'm not blaming the players who left me, it's up to them. Im simply saying, if my team are struggling for players, why not let the commited players join another team struggling for players?

Besides, the more players I have signed up, the more players the Prop have to choose from to poach off me :)

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I see your point Harry but the two players you lost last season were relatively new recruits but nonetheless highly regarded players, who were always going to be vulnerable when a 'bigger' or 'more prestigiously regarded' side came in for them. it is a short term fix getting players like that and does not necessarily solve the long term problem. A couple of Drillers are likely to help keep you up, but how likely are they to be with you next season?

Do an eden mate and try to get a lower division or new player (easier said than done I know but possible) who you can groom into your team ethic. These players will be more grateful for the opportunity and be more likely to be loyal in the future. If you keep replacing 'big named' people each year you run the risk of unsettling your regulars and upsetting the team spirit that has been a big part of your success to date.

Just one point of view though. As I said earlier shotgun Mick Samuel. :D

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Mark Miller has been playing for my team on and off for many seasons.

As for Tom Jackman, mine was the only team he had ever played for.

There is no reason The Rack Pack can't attract big names, after all we have ambition and a wonderful Secretary.....Me! :)

Where's the smiley for blowing my own trumpet?

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Tom Jackman was discovered by The Prop years and years ago from when he used to play down The Eagle on a Sunday afternoon :nerner:

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How can it be years and years ago, he is only 12 now????

You were also spotted years ago, unfortunately I overlooked you :(

What a winkle !!!! :hanged:

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A suspended team is suspended for a reason, i.e not paying fines, not phoning results through, un-sporting behaviour etc......Am i right, or is it the Sunday afternoon drinking talking?

If a team has 8 players (for example) signed up at the beginning of a season, then 3 or 4 decide they can not make it (for whatever reason), then why should the remaining 4 players who are commited to the team and playing pool have to sit out?

I am not trying to get players for my team (although the door is open) I am just trying to make sense of the situation.

If The Rack Pack folded under the same circumstances, I would be gutted to have to wait until April/May of next year to join another team (providing anyone would have me)

Does this make sense?

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i agree with you harry,the unpredictables may soon be in the same boat as terry is having a break and graf and i have work commitments which means that ocasionly the team will only have 4 players available.if the team folded and the players banned for the rest of the season i would hang up my cue even though i love pool WORK does have to come first:cry:

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With teams folding and other teams struggling it would be a shame to see players who are willing to play being prevented from so doing by a rule in the constitution which could be interpreted differently.

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Apparently Micky Samuels and John Hoy confirm the Drillers are 100% no more and that Ben Compton should have told Mark Halsey they have withdrawn from the league. There is a bit of confusion whether Ben has notified the league and as we are due to play the Drillers tomorrow night it would be good to get some official clarification on this one way or the other.

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If he drillers are no more then lets hope the league will let the committed players sign up play for the other teams who need help and not let them go the same way as the drillers

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I'm gonna stick my neck out here and allow the committed players to play elsewhere for the remainder of this season until such time that a ruling exactly specifies the do's and dont's regarding players from a WITHDRAWN TEAM.

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Nice one Mark, good shout.

Does anyone have Rainsey's number or any of the other committed players numbers?

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I totally agree that the committed players should be allowed to continue to play pool such as Rainsy Micky Samuel John Hoy Domanic Desouza(the last one was a joke). Having said that even though they are disbanding they will still probably turn up against us with 10 men:kiss:Also does this mean the Hot shots 4-3 win last week will now become an average win?

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Who exactly are being regarded as the Drillers 'committed' players?

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I would hazard a guess at John Hoy, Steve Rains, Micky Samwell, Ben Crompton and Pat Heard-White . .

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Cliff Mills should be committed.

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Ok so it's now clear that The Drillers are no more :(

Who is being tapped up by who? Perhaps we could organise some sort of online auction for the carcass that is The Drillers :idea:

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OK, i'm ready for the auction......Who's up first?

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Were any of the Drillers spotted floating around venues last night?

Was there shameless shinnanigans occuring with incentives and bribes involved?

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Apparently the Prop have snapped up Steve Raines

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Incidentally do the results of the Drillers stand up to date and do the other teams get average points? Are these average points added at the half way stage or as and when you are due to play them? Are all results removed?

Something in me thinks that all games to date stay, all the other games in the first half are average points applied at the half way mark, and all second have games are void.

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As it's so early in the season I think their results should be scrapped but no doubt this eventuality is covered in the League rules.

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I would think there would be a 25% rule???

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I am absolutely sure there is an existing rule, but as I dont think this has ever happened in Div 1 somewhat ashamedly I did not bother paying much attention.

I am pretty sure its either 50% or nothing though.

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Rule 49 states that if a team withdraws from the league:a) All match results will stand up until that date. b) All remaining teams having unplayed fixtures against that team will receive their own average score. c) These average scores will be rounded up or down to a whole figure on the basis that 0.49 and less will be rounded down and 0.50 and above will be rounded up(i.e:a 3.51 average would be deemed as a 4-0 win). d)The 2 point win bonus in a league match will be added where applicable.e)If the occurrence happens during the league programme then all match averages will be calculated on the corresponding fixture date.

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Super dooper. As we have the Drillers next and after last nights results are averaging 5, a 5-0 it is. Thanks.

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Would have taken that before the match if it were to have gone ahead so that'll do nicely . .

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Mmmmm, we are stuffed!

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Especially as we were going to have a few players missing.

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I thought averages were added at the end of the season?

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I am pretty sure all second half results will be voided, but I have to be honest I didnt know whether they were applied at the point of the due match, or at the end of the half. The sense would be it to be at the half as everyone would have played everyone, but in Pondlifes post that appears not to be the case.

As I said its never happened in Div 1 before (Drillers, hold your heads in shame!) so I guess nobody really knew.

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Common sense would dictate that since they've only played 3 there would be less disruption and it would be fairer to all teams if those results were deleted. But the constitution may not allow it.

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dont say that to the unpredictables

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Rule 49 covers a multi-tude of sins and there is no disruption.
This rule will run for the whole season so your destiny re average results is in your own hands. The League programme averages are applied on the match date .... The League Cup are awarded after all 1st Stage matches have been played ... don't ask me why that is as this was voted in many moons ago.