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Am thinking ov proposing that all ko comps get drawn in public at the beginning ov each season n not re drawn every round...iv played in this league for many years n cant help but notice a pattern where all the favourites seem to draw each other n all the outsiders draw each other...i once won the singles n woz ranked 3rd n got drawn against the other top 5 players which asa gambling man thought wats the odds on that n this sort ov thing happens year in year out...last year prop draw eagles twice before the different ko finals n now the singles 16 ov us left n iv got mev n andy as metin,cum on really wat is the odds on this keep happening...i know its in the leagues best interest for underdogs to ava chance but on the other hand should this not all b done above board n in public so we no it is just a coincidence this keeps happening...feel terrible to av to post this but enuf is enuf, i believe fairness should prevail n thats only wat iv ever wanted in the league or ina game ov pool...i may not b playing much longer unfortunatley but it would b nice if in the future things wer done differently...i knew the draw before it woz made,lucky guess? or av i seen it all before :angel:

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I gotta feelin the draw is done at the start,if Mark was to put the draw sheet up at certain venues then u could see who u possibly get in ur side of draw. I personally like the surprise of waiting for the draw and let's be honest,the further u get in these comps the more likely ur gonna get drawn against top players. If ur gonna win it uve gotta beat the best,just my opinion.

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Speaking of which has the draw been done for the next round?? I don't see anything up and I believe the next tie is to be played next Monday... unless i'm mistaken??

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dont quit jacko id miss your weekly medical updates.:D:

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dont worry jacko, its all legit. The Pakistani cricket team do the draw.

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It's been like it for years u just have to expect it I think

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Your out of line with this and this is nothing short of accusing me of rigging draws ........ Its called the luck of the draw and if any don't suit you and your that angry then sod off and play your pool somewhere else ...... PS, what's my lottery numbers next week if you can see in the future.

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TOLD lol

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so its all a coincidence then...told u every1 that its not rigged,all these many many people who thought these strange draws wer rigged all these years now no its not...n as for sodding off n playing sumwhere else il do wat the fck i want...as long as i stick within the rules...best thing to do i guess mark is ava open public draw to put all these thousands ov doubters minds at rest...il tel u this every1 thinks u rig the draws n every1 asa question mark over subs n trophies...i dont mind mentioning it whilst others may prefer to talk in whispers...dont shot the messenger mark, any1 who understands maths n the laws ov probability no how ard it would b for the same scenarios to constantly reoccur...just saying :angel:

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It's a wonder to me why anybody would want to administrate our league with these kinds of comments.

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yes beardy ur so right ,prob best not to mention it eh...nothing wrong at all with putting ur ed in the sand...ina democracy things improve thro asking questions n things bein open n clear...we av an AGM to propose things n make changes for the better,the iffy draws av been psing people off for years but im the only 1 who as publicly cum on here n said it,turn a blind eye if u wish but i choose not to anymore...:angel:

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Tony i fancy your old age is bringing on a touch of Cynicism and mistrust m8y. lol

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Not sure what kinda draw you expect in the last 8, probability is that you are gonna get a decent player.

Been in the league for about 28 years now & never had a problem with the draws personally. With the plate now introduced i beleive it makes the draws even more difficult as you have to have byes in the second round of the main comp, so couldn't see a one off draw for the whole comp working out anyway & personally wouldn't ask for it as i have complete trust that all the draws are totally legitimate.

I think you need to speak for yourself Tony, as i for one do not think the draws are rigged in any way, although to be fair when out & about at pool matches i have heard the odd few people share your opinion. i think its just pot luck who you get drawn against.

Think making these accusasions on this web site is just biting the hand that feeds you. There are not many people in this league that would put the time & effort in that the current people running this league do & this along with the recent moaning about the size of the trophies probably doesn't encourage the current people to continue running this league.

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Tony, I've been doing this too long to get bothered about whispers or bothered about people like you that come out of the closet and use a website to air your views and opinion so get your team secretary to put together whatever proposal you want to submit, get it seconded and lets put it to the floor in february.

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tony...I've been playing in the same team as mr mark halsley for the last 2 or year and a half ( can't remember ) if he is riggin it hes doing a rubbush job...we seem to get the legends at the in the early stages (don't give it..... decent team and team we wouldn't want o play early ) we had you I thinkish and you did us 8-0 and we've got the eagles on Monday night...there is good times and bad times but if mark is riggin the draw he's givin his own team pants
so how selective is your thinkin
or do you think he is just targeting you
to be honest playing in this league for a few years and having the pleasure of knowing and playing pool with mark I've found him a pretty straight down the line gent who has from a personnel opinion always acted on behalf of the league with fairness

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Blimey that meeting will be busy with the "thousands of people who think it's rigged" Apart from, I wouldn't believe Mark would rig the draw in a million years, why would he, what possible benefit would he get from doing it?

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Like I said in my original post to basically keep the league interested by stopping any kind ov monopoly by the top dogs...think bout it if every top trophy woz fought out by the elite then others would lose interest...I luv playing the best players I tend to raise my game n enjoy it but this aint about me this is about every top team n top players never meeting in the final coz wev all got drawn against 1 another en route...think sum people may b blind to this...its mathematics pure n simple but im afraid these things seem to shoot straight over sum peoples ed...I do understand the positives but stil don't make it right:angel: am truly truly sori if this post offends but cum on pls think bout it..

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. Very true

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Well I'm glad you know your maths because your english is terrible

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i think if you look at the various winners of the league, the cups and the individual singles over the years i really cant see where they have not been won by any other than elite players or teams so wheres the argument? if someone else wins it from outside the elite as you put it then great and good luck to them but to make accusations of rigging is just a total rubbish.

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I've never won the Singles, as I always get drawn against someone who beats me, sooner or later. It's an outrage!
:wall:

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Jacko, that is crazy espec coming from someone who has won it a number of times
i played in the sgles a few times & got beat mainly by top div 1 players & that is the nature of the beast, i was not an elite player but managed to win it 1 year overcoming 5 top 10 10/20 players en-route, which i knew i would have to do & did it - am pretty sure when seeing my name they all expected to beat me, but luck be a lady n all that they did not :P

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Me olde m8 jacko has took a rite pasting very enjoyable avvvvvvvvvvv it!!!

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I personally don't think the draw is rigged but if that chopper kelliher has won it twice it must be lool

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Looooool bunter very true sir

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Exactly bunter , u can c my logic.....tis quite funny tho think sum ov these people stil fink the world is flat...iv been in this league many years n this is sumthin wat as been clearly noticed year in year out but sum obviously av not noticed it as it prob does not apply to them...get your crayons out tis clearly beyond u...:angel:

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Surely the best thing to do for the league would be to get these thousands of doubters to sign up, then the league would be up to about 20 divisions!

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Gr8 idea can u propse that...better not use ur crayons tho...:angel:

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I could do but I have no idea who these thousands of people are.
:dance:

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People with talent at the higher echelon who av ad the intelligence to notice bizarre patterns....if neither ov this is applicable to u then I can Understand how it may ov sailed straight over ur ed all these years...it would b but a dream for truth to b admitted but it wont n the brown nosers will b brown nosers...tis all very sad me thinks...seen sum gr8 egg cups for sale in poundstretchers y dont we put the subs up to ?250 a year n we can av them next year...r u lot blind :angel:

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I am slightly confused Jacko. Is this now about Value for Money on subs, or fixing draws. What is the accusation?

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Na nothing, cant b asked with it really tis all bs ...sick ov all the lies...Croydon pool is slowly dying n so b it...in recent times iv tried to change things n make things fairer but its all blox there is so so much wrong with our league itsa joke...took years to bring in world rules its like wer always behind the times n full ov self serving people...rankings is blox...trophies r blox...draws r blox tis an old dying dinosaur n wen u try n rectify anything u get fckin idiots trying to deny theres a prob...fck it I cant b asked no more theres no morals...:angel:

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For someone who has achieved so much in the croydon league I think you should seriously read the rubbish your writing on here Jacko..because all your doing is making yourself look like a bitter old man with an axe to grind ...if your Fed up with all the fixing and lies and and can't be assed any more then just pack it all in...Tuesday is meant to be a social gathering and some pool and a laugh and maybe a trophy at the end for some ..none of us are exactly pro's,but it seems for you its a big ego trip of I want I want...if you've got all this support behind you then get names on paper and present it at the next agm.

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of course it's rigged...

mev asked for an easy draw and he got jacko...!!!


really...???
rigging takes thought, time and effort, i'm sure mark can't be bothered with all that just to stitch you up jacko, albeit after your posts he might start now...!

jacko as you're the best player it shouldn't bother you. it's the other thousands that should be complaining.
in my 20 years of CDPL i've never heard of anyone suggesting a rigged draw, i've only entered a few times in the past and got one of the favourites in the first round, that's just the way it is!

as for trophies, i like them small, otherwise i'd run out of shelve space in my snooker room... it's the title and winning with your mates that counts...

i'm suprised no-one has told you before size doesn't matter...!

as brooker says, don't bite the hand that feeds you

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😀

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Tony, nobody will disagree with you about the size of the pool league dwindling, but that is more to do with the closure of hundreds of pubs in the Croydon area, a lot of the lower league teams left because they don't like world rules. But this rant is spiraling,accusations of draw rigging and embezzling is mad.

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There is so much I could say about this, I don't even know where to start....and I would probably be here all night...

Suffice it to say, I KNOW the draw is not rigged, you can't keep buying big trophies when there is less money coming into the league, and I have NEVER heard anyone complain the draw is rigged.

As a winner of the comps on more than one occasion in the past, you obviously have the quality to win it Jacko...are you feeling a little threatened that maybe your powers are dwindling with age??? I cannot see any other reason for the comments you are making, and would suggest an open apology might be the best way forward to closing this matter sooner rather than later - I predict nothing good will come from pursuing this avenue....

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With respect to how things were done in the past that's history. Seems to me that we just need clarification of what the process on how the draws are made now ? Then, if everyone is happy with the process, then that one's done and dusted ?

With respect to the cost of running leagues, it may be worth doing a bit of bench-marking with other pool leagues to understand relative costs and what they may be doing better than us, and learn from them ? Lewisham league is ?65 a year, and the trophies this year were very impressive.

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Jesus m8 dont start talking sense coz ur upset the arse lickers :angel:

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me 2 finks it fixd I aint 1 it ever
must b fixd

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I must be able to predict the future cos me and John have drawn Gary and Katie In the doubles Qf..... Must be rigged !! :violin: :D:

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Doubles Plate quarter final draw,

Danny kelliher/Steve k v dean cooper/nick pool
Lee manister/charles burrows v Craig jones/Shane
Peter dewsbury/Wayne thomas v John Hersey,grant Westbrook
Neil/Darren v Gary swettenham,Scott Harrison,

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Find it so frustrating n actually feel sori for sum ov the people who r trying to mug me off bcoz they r so dumb or av never been gud enuf that they av not noticed the draw patterns in the past...pls tel me how is it possible for all the best players n teams to keep bumping into each other before the final, surely to god they cant constantly b in the same half all the time wen it gets re drawn conveniently each round...it benefits the league to stop the same teams monopolising everything n let sum underdogs ava chance...iv actually been told this by sum1 who as admitted to me there as been a deliberate interference to stop a total monopoly in the past ...its so fckin obvious to any1 with more than 1 brian sell :band: make a draw swap 1 or 2 teams around n so forth...thats ard to do aint it...I wanted to let this drop after I got my rant out ov my system but then get people giving it ...u no nothing u fools...there av been rong doings but lets just ignore it yea...:angel:

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:zzz: zzzzzzzzzzz:zzz:zzzzzzz:zzz:

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"more than one Brian sell" - classic.

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does Brian Buy or Sell his brain cells ?
ffs......
Jacko, can you draw the world cup today to ensure england get a so called eassy draw

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oh and who is the person that apparently told you this

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You crazy kids!

The draw was always suspect but that was part of the novelty. The way I see it you'd have to beat Mev at some point so might as well do it now.

I miss all this. The draw is done either at the monthly meetings or on a live stream up this way so it gets a little boring everyone living in harmony :(

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U did note I put a :band: after brian sell? Woz bein sarcastic n mocking the mentally challenged....n for those who commented on the delib mistake it mite b u...bless :angel:

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P.s. iv always enjoyed playing top players n winning the odd title or 2 so aint about an easy draw its bout a fair draw...plus av u not considered how these draws effect the rankings...it would b nice to look at the rankings at the end ov the year n say wel there pretty much the best 10 players croydon av instead ov looking at it n thinking wtf is that list about...I got the doubles points halved even tho I wanted em gone n managed to geta slight increase for div1 wins to try n geta truer reflection...rankings means nothing if its based on a debatable draw n points system...hench div2 players winning it twice in recent years...am only asking for fair play n a truer looking rankings n ko system...:angel:

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So for all those that are interested this is how the draws are made at the moment in all KO comps ........ when you are furbished with the initial 1st round draws all fixtures have match numbers. When the winners become apparent a column is inserted next to the original match number in an excel spreadsheet and a random number is given to all by a formula that reads =rand(). This formula is copied down the entire entrants left and then a sort command is given to the random numbers that jumbles up the entries left so if its a 128 draw then the first 64 play at home against the last 64 ie 1 v 65, 2 v 66 etc etc etc ........ So Mr Jackson, in your opinion what is unfair about that ........ try it yourself and perhaps you might just put this to sleep.

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so once drawn u cant swap a name around? no reason not to do a public draw is there ,1 draw from the outset people can rearrange games if they wish n theyl never b any reason for a late result as future opponents can b contacted way in advance if need...keep a big print out down the farly,rileys n frames n people can watch it progress n like the world cup av fun debating how its gona progress...save u any hassle wouldnt it...:angel:

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Reigate's comps are drawn during committee meetings although it is easier to do as we have 16 venues with up to 8 st each venue, then redraw the last 16 and it is played to the final, done.and dusted in 2 nights.

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Frankly this is a load of old *******

I dont really play in the comps anymore but I personally like the concept if getting a random draw the week before.

On his first game back in the league Mark hslsey drew met tomris in the first round. Fix. Not sure about that.

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wat on earth does that av2 do with the point i woz making...i am not for 1 minute saying all draws r rigged...all i said is from time to time there is possibly a bit ov tampering to put the better players/teams against each other in the latter stages particularly...i remember beating john hersey ina singles final 1 year n we meet in the quarters knowing full well we wer playing the final basically coz en route we ad beaten all the other top players n the weaker players ad all been playing 1another to ensure weaker players progressed n stronger players all knocked each other out...i woz happy enuf to breeze thro the semi n the final that year but found it a tad unfair on others who didnt get fair crack at the whip...actually think bout it shaggy this as happened year in year out...its not possible is it with a fair draw,yea on occasion ov course it can happen but not 24/7...really :angel:

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Tony here's what I think for what it's worth.....put the subject to bed mate you have expressed how u feel u are just making your self look silly mate people are entitled to there opinion and that's what u have but what I will say is how does it benefit mark rigging draws mate it physically can't the draw is the draw u have to beat good players at some stage I'd rather win the singles bearing good players/teams etc much better mate had a great final with Trevor best final I been in 5-4 nail biting stuff every mistake punished from both party's played hughie in the semi aswell now when I won the singles I really won it playing the elite of Croydon pool much better than playing somebody with zero class! Forget it being rigged mate it aint it's in your head seriously your just going to piss mark off even more is it worth it? Get that head and shoulder down play the balls your good enough!

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I'm too old in the tooth to be pissed off by someone airing his opinion but at the end of the day if the boy wants to think rigging or tampering goes on then let him think it and if he wants a public one off draw then let him put pen to paper and put it to the league. Personally it makes little difference to me whether its a one off or round re-draws as I can only undertake what is decided at meetings but I am in a position where I have to be accountable and accountable I have been in my 30 years doing this and have been challenged by bigger and better over the years but hey ......... I'm still here, so I must be doing something right !!.

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I'm going to look at this from a different viewpoint, which will hopefully show why jacko thinks he has a point, but at the same time show that it is invalid...so lets do the maths.

Cast your minds back to the heady days of a five division league. Each division would have approximately 100 players, giving approx 500 players in total. Obviously not everyone would enter the singles, and probably not even half, so let us assume for now that 200 players entered.

Now look at the players who are capable of reaching the later stages of this competition. Eagles and Prop players would feature heavily, along with players from the Better Halfs and Unpredictables, and undoubtedly some other individuals from other teams. It would therefore be reasonable to suggest that there would be 32 "better players" capable of reaching the later stages of the singles, or 1/6 of the total entrants.

For the purpose of this example, let us assume that the first round is drawn with no byes. Everyone has a 1 in 6 chance of playing a "better player", and that includes the "better players" themselves. On that basis, there would probably be 3 matches that pit "better players" against each other. (1/6 of 32 is 6 when rounded to the nearest even number, giving 3 matches)

Let us also assume that the form book holds true in the other games, which would leave 29 "better players" out of the 100 in the next round. This creates the probability that there is approximately a 1 in 3 chance of drawing a better player. On the same basis as before, this would create 5 games where "better players" play each other. This would leave 24 "better players" in the draw for the next round, meaning that 25% of that group have already been eliminated.

With 50 players in the next round, there is now a 1 in 2 chance of meeting a "better player", so it would be reasonable to assume that there would be 12 of the remaining 24 "better players" playing each other, meaning a further 6 are eliminated.

After 3 rounds, the starting group of 32 "better players" has been reduced by nearly half. On the face of it, it could seem that better players are being drawn against each other, but the laws of probability and statistics show that this should actually be a normal, expected outcome. Indeed, any draw where "better players" all avoid each other is actually statistically far less likely, and therefore has a higher probability of being rigged.

I am fully aware that there are a number of assumptions and approximations made within the explanation above. This is purely to demonstrate the principle of the calculation, rather than being bogged down in specifics.

I know I have lived up to my screen name in this long winded explanation, but for those that have read this far, I hope it makes sense, and enables this debate to be concluded without further upset.

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[quote]Statto wrote:
I'm going to look at this from a different viewpoint,

I was done after you said that......why would anyone listen to a different viewpoint :chair:

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I never trust a person that says math rather than maths. Point invalidated.

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Edited!!!